The Spin
A teacher who likes to spar with me on the Cleveland.com education forum tries to spin things when confronted with the truth. I can point out that schools are being razed by giving links to television news stories. I can give directions to schools that are closed, with their new windows broken. I can give you directions to places where schools have been razed. Yet this teacher will challenge me by asking if I am "providing opinion or facts". Well all I can say is if you don’t believe me, hop in your car and take a drive and see for yourself.
One of the best “spins” dealt with the Bond Accountability Commission. I posted my blog about the waste of money being spent on renovating schools and then having them razed on the Cleveland.com education forum:
I hope you readers understand why I enjoy posting on the Cleveland.com education forum. I’ve been having fun exposing the CMSD wasting tax dollars and watching as some teachers try to stand up for their administration.
Here are the responses from that posting. The teacher does his best to stick up for his administration. The conversation starts off civil enough, but ends up being a mudslinging party.
After posting my building renovation blog on the education forum:
Blogger1,
It has been this way since the early 70's, and that’s why I have always voted NO since 1974.
The teacher,
Difficult situation the first phase was, "warm, safe, and dry." That meant that schools with drafty/dysfunctional/broken windows, leaky roofs, and unsecured doors were first priority. These schools were open at the time. You can't refuse to keep children warm, safe, and dry because their school might close.
Furthermore, the CMSD doesn't have a salvage yard to stockpile building materials from closed buildings that might be useful somewhere. It’s unfortunate that there was a short-term investment that had to be made that no longer benefits the district. I would hardly call it fraud, waste, or abuse, however.
If you want something to get angry about, look at where your tax money is going in Iraq. Over 2 trillion so far, with much of it missing.
RickCFD,
There is nothing difficult about it. The CMSD would not be in a difficult situation if the high paid school leadership were competent enough to have a master plan in place before they carelessly spent taxpayer monies which would ultimately end up in the landfill a few years later. There is no excuse for the mishandling of taxpayer money, none what so ever. I absolutely disagree with you. What was done (and is being done) does amount to fraud, waste, and abuse. It is fiscal mismanagement.
If you need to repair windows, doors, roofs on schools that will be closing within a few years, it does not take a PhD to know that you do not spend hundreds of thousands of taxpayer monies by installing brand new windows doors and roofs. You make what ever temporary repairs are needed to get those schools through their last few years before they close and are razed. What was done was wasteful and irresponsible. There obviously was no forethought given. There was no master plan. I guess it must be easy to spend taxpayer monies when the money is not coming out of management’s pocketbooks.
And I do not want to hear any excuses that the administration did not realize that these schools would be closed and razed within a few years. If that is the excuse, it would prove that the leadership and management are not qualified to manage the CMSD.
You state that the CMSD doesn't have a salvage yard to stockpile building materials from closed buildings that might be useful somewhere else. According to the news story, once the waste was exposed, the CMSD all of a sudden found a way to fix the obvious waste pointed out in the news investigation. And this was done with Dr. Sanders’ blessing. Was this a miracle? Or proof that the CMSD did not care what they were doing with taxpayer money?
From reading the interview from the news investigation, it was clear that salvage had never crossed Mr. Sautter’s mind. The CMSD was not in any way concerned that they were throwing away taxpayer monies until of course when the news station exposed them.
What is unfortunate is that city and school leaders continue to fly by the seat of their pants, spending taxpayer monies without a care in the world, with no real master plan, (the master plan is in a continuous state of flux), and no accountability, and now they are crying that they need more money. Too bad! A lot of what we taxpayers gave the CMSD has been put in the landfill. If Dr. Sanders needs more money, he should grab his shovel and start digging in the landfill for it. There’s plenty there.
Now of course if you teachers would truly like to support your schools, you can always move into the fine city of Cleveland and live here like all other city workers have to, pay your property taxes, and then you can have a legitimate say on how your tax dollars should be spent. But I won’t hold my breath. Most idea people and do-gooders who live on the other side of the fence are the one’s paving this city’s road to ruin with their good intentions.
I will tell you that I and many other taxpayers will be voting a resounding “NO” on any tax issue the CMSD throws at us. And I am doing what I can to get the word out to my fellow taxpayers.
The Teacher,
How about this; since you think the CMSD leadership is perpetually incompetent, why don't you come up with some practical solutions? Do you think that cutting funding MORE will fix the schools? Please explain how this works.
Blogger2,
Vouchers for everyone. Private schools have proven to be good stewards of school funds, whereas your corrupt org has PROVEN time after time to be incompetent boobs. Let the pros handle it, since your org is apparently amateurish.
RickCFD,
Because the funding from the 2001 bond issue has been mismanaged, the taxpayers should not renew the bond issue. The CMSD has thrown away too many tax dollars into the landfill.
It has become apparent to me by reading your posts that you agree with how the CMSD management spends taxpayer's monies.
From your posts you apparently believe that the taxpayer monies have not been carelessly spent.
And from your posts you apparently believe that the management of the CMSD and all of its policies are ethical and moral.
And you have also stated in your posts that you do not live in Cleveland nor do you want to. And because you do not live in Cleveland, you do not pay its property taxes. And it is apparent from your posts that I disagree with you.
The teacher is starting to lose the argument. Others begin chiming in. Time to spin:
The teacher,
Do you know who is responsible for the oversight of the construction project? It’s the state. And anecdotal evidence does not prove that the project has been mismanaged. Now, again, what practical solutions do you have to improve the schools which you claim are run by such incompetent leaders?
Blogger3, (Deleted by moderator)
OHGR is the Construction Manager. I have NEVER seen the State of Ohio monitor anything related to a construction project. That's why a CONSTRUCTION MANAGER is hired. Which State Department are you referring to? Or are you just spinning & running your mouth again?
The Teacher, (Deleted by moderator)
*Actually, the state mandates that they put together a bond accountability commission. It is an oxymoron, however, saying that you have accountability in taxpayer-funded construction projects. You know as well as anyone what a joke that is.
*(Side note: Funny, I thought it was our appointed school board that put together our Bond Accountability Commission.)
RickCFD,
Ever hear of the BAC?
April 2001 - The appointed Cleveland school board creates a Bond Accountability Commission to “ensure bond proceeds are spent appropriately.”
The board’s vote calls for the creation of the 2001 Bond Issue Accountability Commission “with the authority and the appropriate resources” to monitor:
-The development and content of the comprehensive facilities plan
-The construction, design, engineering and rehabilitation of Cleveland’s school facilities
-The expenditure of funds raised from the ballot issue
-And to regularly report its findings to the board and community
Do you remember those promises of accountability that were made to the taxpayers?
The BAC failed in their job and died. Barbara Byrd-Bennett received a $50000 bonus and then left Cleveland.
Are you really a teacher?
Do you realize when you post that you are your own worst enemy?
Blogger2, (Deleted by moderator)
Lemmy will never get it. That's why everyone should just vote NO. That's the only thing he & his corrupt union buddies will be forced to understand.
Lemmy has a beat-up 1981 Chevy Chevette, which he has been pouring $$$ into for years. It constantly breaks down, but he foolishly still wants to keep fixing it. His neighbor has a 03 Ford Taurus - very reliable, & will rent it to lemmy for a reasonable rate. But lemmy stomps his feet, says no way & heads to the parts store.
Only problem is lemmy keeps using taxpayer $$$.
The teacher believes I am crazy to blame the BAC. The teacher is losing the argument; others are now making fun of him. Time to personally attack me:
The Teacher, (Deleted by moderator)
Blaming the BAC! They are independent of the schools, and BBB.
Are you really a firefighter? Do you really think you have the right to complain about teachers when you have a government job that requires nothing but a high school diploma and that pays you well despite the fact that you spend the majority of your time playing pool and cooking? Every firefighter I know has time for a full-time job when they're not sucking taxpayer money. You should be the last one throwing stones.
RickCFD, (Deleted by moderator)
Personal attacks, that’s the best you can do. What a shame. It is obvious why others on this forum speak so ill of you. I just found it hard to believe that an educated teacher in Cleveland could support the poor decisions of its management. I thought I made that clear that the Cleveland teachers I have met are some of the most dedicated in the profession.
If you want to get the taxpayers on your side, use your union clout to stop the mismanagement. But as long as teachers support their management’s wasteful ways, they will not get the support of the taxpayer. I and many other taxpayers in Cleveland are disgusted by the CMSD management and those who support it with their words while living outside of city limits.
I am sure that you are a dedicated teacher and do what you can to educate the students of Cleveland.
Sorry but I can’t waste anymore time with you today. I need to go to the firehouse to catch up on some pool; make sure I keep stirring the pot; and suck up more taxpayer monies.
The Teacher,
Try this, Rick, If you have complaints, propose solutions. Legal, practical, realistic solutions. Solutions that will improve the educational outcomes for Cleveland’s kids not punish the administration at the expense of kids.
RickCFD,
Giving me advice after your last remarks? You’re kidding, right? Giving advice to who you believe to be a mere high school educated, tax sucking, city worker? I’ll give you this; you do have a lot of nerve.
You really think you have me figured out. You think you personally know my educational background. You think you know what I and all other firefighters do while at their jobs. Funny, some of us simpletons can even administer drugs as paramedics. A lot of responsibility for a high school educated tax sucking city worker, you think?
Perhaps I was wrong to think that you were one of those dedicated teachers in Cleveland. Perhaps you are one of the tax spending administrators.
Big monies are being thrown into the landfill but from what you write with your college education, you seem to think that holding the administration accountable for their waste would hurt the kids. I just cannot figure out your logic. It is the administration and those who support their actions who are the ones that punish at the expense the kids. They punish the property tax payer by mismanaging their tax dollars. Sorry if I vote NO.
I have proposed some solutions; some were deleted; you did not agree with them; because you disagree, I am a tax sucking, high school educated city worker who spends the majority of his time at work loafing by playing pool and cooking.
Your insults speak clearly enough.
Sorry Mr. Teacher, but you are not helping your cause by mocking us tax sucking firefighters. By the way there are other city workers (police, ems, water, cpp etc.) who are also just high school educated tax sucking folks. But understand that the city workers have to live in Cleveland and they pay a lion’s share of the larger property taxes in Cleveland. This will be changing soon. The mayor has even said that if the 8000 plus city workers moved out of the city, it would cripple Cleveland’s economy. And there are plenty of city workers who pay property taxes who have had enough with the fiscal mismanagement and may be moving out of the city soon.
Unfortunately, there are not loads of educated young professional people with families breaking down the borders to move into this city. The city’s population has been on a steady decline.
So please, spare me your advice.
The Teacher,
Now you know how it feels.
Blogger2,
Business as usual in cesspool C-town. That's what happens when you let clowns run important projects. Keep voting NO, & tell everyone you meet to vote NO also.
The Teacher,
As if you would know. Dilbert, the expert on managing urban schools. Amazing that you haven't been hired yet to save New Orleans.
Blogger2,
It is amazing that you keep defending a system that has PROVEN to fail decade after decade. But that's what your corrupt union brainwashed you to do. Dance, puppet, dance!
A teacher who likes to spar with me on the Cleveland.com education forum tries to spin things when confronted with the truth. I can point out that schools are being razed by giving links to television news stories. I can give directions to schools that are closed, with their new windows broken. I can give you directions to places where schools have been razed. Yet this teacher will challenge me by asking if I am "providing opinion or facts". Well all I can say is if you don’t believe me, hop in your car and take a drive and see for yourself.
One of the best “spins” dealt with the Bond Accountability Commission. I posted my blog about the waste of money being spent on renovating schools and then having them razed on the Cleveland.com education forum:
I hope you readers understand why I enjoy posting on the Cleveland.com education forum. I’ve been having fun exposing the CMSD wasting tax dollars and watching as some teachers try to stand up for their administration.
Here are the responses from that posting. The teacher does his best to stick up for his administration. The conversation starts off civil enough, but ends up being a mudslinging party.
After posting my building renovation blog on the education forum:
Blogger1,
It has been this way since the early 70's, and that’s why I have always voted NO since 1974.
The teacher,
Difficult situation the first phase was, "warm, safe, and dry." That meant that schools with drafty/dysfunctional/broken windows, leaky roofs, and unsecured doors were first priority. These schools were open at the time. You can't refuse to keep children warm, safe, and dry because their school might close.
Furthermore, the CMSD doesn't have a salvage yard to stockpile building materials from closed buildings that might be useful somewhere. It’s unfortunate that there was a short-term investment that had to be made that no longer benefits the district. I would hardly call it fraud, waste, or abuse, however.
If you want something to get angry about, look at where your tax money is going in Iraq. Over 2 trillion so far, with much of it missing.
RickCFD,
There is nothing difficult about it. The CMSD would not be in a difficult situation if the high paid school leadership were competent enough to have a master plan in place before they carelessly spent taxpayer monies which would ultimately end up in the landfill a few years later. There is no excuse for the mishandling of taxpayer money, none what so ever. I absolutely disagree with you. What was done (and is being done) does amount to fraud, waste, and abuse. It is fiscal mismanagement.
If you need to repair windows, doors, roofs on schools that will be closing within a few years, it does not take a PhD to know that you do not spend hundreds of thousands of taxpayer monies by installing brand new windows doors and roofs. You make what ever temporary repairs are needed to get those schools through their last few years before they close and are razed. What was done was wasteful and irresponsible. There obviously was no forethought given. There was no master plan. I guess it must be easy to spend taxpayer monies when the money is not coming out of management’s pocketbooks.
And I do not want to hear any excuses that the administration did not realize that these schools would be closed and razed within a few years. If that is the excuse, it would prove that the leadership and management are not qualified to manage the CMSD.
You state that the CMSD doesn't have a salvage yard to stockpile building materials from closed buildings that might be useful somewhere else. According to the news story, once the waste was exposed, the CMSD all of a sudden found a way to fix the obvious waste pointed out in the news investigation. And this was done with Dr. Sanders’ blessing. Was this a miracle? Or proof that the CMSD did not care what they were doing with taxpayer money?
From reading the interview from the news investigation, it was clear that salvage had never crossed Mr. Sautter’s mind. The CMSD was not in any way concerned that they were throwing away taxpayer monies until of course when the news station exposed them.
What is unfortunate is that city and school leaders continue to fly by the seat of their pants, spending taxpayer monies without a care in the world, with no real master plan, (the master plan is in a continuous state of flux), and no accountability, and now they are crying that they need more money. Too bad! A lot of what we taxpayers gave the CMSD has been put in the landfill. If Dr. Sanders needs more money, he should grab his shovel and start digging in the landfill for it. There’s plenty there.
Now of course if you teachers would truly like to support your schools, you can always move into the fine city of Cleveland and live here like all other city workers have to, pay your property taxes, and then you can have a legitimate say on how your tax dollars should be spent. But I won’t hold my breath. Most idea people and do-gooders who live on the other side of the fence are the one’s paving this city’s road to ruin with their good intentions.
I will tell you that I and many other taxpayers will be voting a resounding “NO” on any tax issue the CMSD throws at us. And I am doing what I can to get the word out to my fellow taxpayers.
The Teacher,
How about this; since you think the CMSD leadership is perpetually incompetent, why don't you come up with some practical solutions? Do you think that cutting funding MORE will fix the schools? Please explain how this works.
Blogger2,
Vouchers for everyone. Private schools have proven to be good stewards of school funds, whereas your corrupt org has PROVEN time after time to be incompetent boobs. Let the pros handle it, since your org is apparently amateurish.
RickCFD,
Because the funding from the 2001 bond issue has been mismanaged, the taxpayers should not renew the bond issue. The CMSD has thrown away too many tax dollars into the landfill.
It has become apparent to me by reading your posts that you agree with how the CMSD management spends taxpayer's monies.
From your posts you apparently believe that the taxpayer monies have not been carelessly spent.
And from your posts you apparently believe that the management of the CMSD and all of its policies are ethical and moral.
And you have also stated in your posts that you do not live in Cleveland nor do you want to. And because you do not live in Cleveland, you do not pay its property taxes. And it is apparent from your posts that I disagree with you.
The teacher is starting to lose the argument. Others begin chiming in. Time to spin:
The teacher,
Do you know who is responsible for the oversight of the construction project? It’s the state. And anecdotal evidence does not prove that the project has been mismanaged. Now, again, what practical solutions do you have to improve the schools which you claim are run by such incompetent leaders?
Blogger3, (Deleted by moderator)
OHGR is the Construction Manager. I have NEVER seen the State of Ohio monitor anything related to a construction project. That's why a CONSTRUCTION MANAGER is hired. Which State Department are you referring to? Or are you just spinning & running your mouth again?
The Teacher, (Deleted by moderator)
*Actually, the state mandates that they put together a bond accountability commission. It is an oxymoron, however, saying that you have accountability in taxpayer-funded construction projects. You know as well as anyone what a joke that is.
*(Side note: Funny, I thought it was our appointed school board that put together our Bond Accountability Commission.)
RickCFD,
Ever hear of the BAC?
April 2001 - The appointed Cleveland school board creates a Bond Accountability Commission to “ensure bond proceeds are spent appropriately.”
The board’s vote calls for the creation of the 2001 Bond Issue Accountability Commission “with the authority and the appropriate resources” to monitor:
-The development and content of the comprehensive facilities plan
-The construction, design, engineering and rehabilitation of Cleveland’s school facilities
-The expenditure of funds raised from the ballot issue
-And to regularly report its findings to the board and community
Do you remember those promises of accountability that were made to the taxpayers?
The BAC failed in their job and died. Barbara Byrd-Bennett received a $50000 bonus and then left Cleveland.
Are you really a teacher?
Do you realize when you post that you are your own worst enemy?
Blogger2, (Deleted by moderator)
Lemmy will never get it. That's why everyone should just vote NO. That's the only thing he & his corrupt union buddies will be forced to understand.
Lemmy has a beat-up 1981 Chevy Chevette, which he has been pouring $$$ into for years. It constantly breaks down, but he foolishly still wants to keep fixing it. His neighbor has a 03 Ford Taurus - very reliable, & will rent it to lemmy for a reasonable rate. But lemmy stomps his feet, says no way & heads to the parts store.
Only problem is lemmy keeps using taxpayer $$$.
The teacher believes I am crazy to blame the BAC. The teacher is losing the argument; others are now making fun of him. Time to personally attack me:
The Teacher, (Deleted by moderator)
Blaming the BAC! They are independent of the schools, and BBB.
Are you really a firefighter? Do you really think you have the right to complain about teachers when you have a government job that requires nothing but a high school diploma and that pays you well despite the fact that you spend the majority of your time playing pool and cooking? Every firefighter I know has time for a full-time job when they're not sucking taxpayer money. You should be the last one throwing stones.
RickCFD, (Deleted by moderator)
Personal attacks, that’s the best you can do. What a shame. It is obvious why others on this forum speak so ill of you. I just found it hard to believe that an educated teacher in Cleveland could support the poor decisions of its management. I thought I made that clear that the Cleveland teachers I have met are some of the most dedicated in the profession.
If you want to get the taxpayers on your side, use your union clout to stop the mismanagement. But as long as teachers support their management’s wasteful ways, they will not get the support of the taxpayer. I and many other taxpayers in Cleveland are disgusted by the CMSD management and those who support it with their words while living outside of city limits.
I am sure that you are a dedicated teacher and do what you can to educate the students of Cleveland.
Sorry but I can’t waste anymore time with you today. I need to go to the firehouse to catch up on some pool; make sure I keep stirring the pot; and suck up more taxpayer monies.
The Teacher,
Try this, Rick, If you have complaints, propose solutions. Legal, practical, realistic solutions. Solutions that will improve the educational outcomes for Cleveland’s kids not punish the administration at the expense of kids.
RickCFD,
Giving me advice after your last remarks? You’re kidding, right? Giving advice to who you believe to be a mere high school educated, tax sucking, city worker? I’ll give you this; you do have a lot of nerve.
You really think you have me figured out. You think you personally know my educational background. You think you know what I and all other firefighters do while at their jobs. Funny, some of us simpletons can even administer drugs as paramedics. A lot of responsibility for a high school educated tax sucking city worker, you think?
Perhaps I was wrong to think that you were one of those dedicated teachers in Cleveland. Perhaps you are one of the tax spending administrators.
Big monies are being thrown into the landfill but from what you write with your college education, you seem to think that holding the administration accountable for their waste would hurt the kids. I just cannot figure out your logic. It is the administration and those who support their actions who are the ones that punish at the expense the kids. They punish the property tax payer by mismanaging their tax dollars. Sorry if I vote NO.
I have proposed some solutions; some were deleted; you did not agree with them; because you disagree, I am a tax sucking, high school educated city worker who spends the majority of his time at work loafing by playing pool and cooking.
Your insults speak clearly enough.
Sorry Mr. Teacher, but you are not helping your cause by mocking us tax sucking firefighters. By the way there are other city workers (police, ems, water, cpp etc.) who are also just high school educated tax sucking folks. But understand that the city workers have to live in Cleveland and they pay a lion’s share of the larger property taxes in Cleveland. This will be changing soon. The mayor has even said that if the 8000 plus city workers moved out of the city, it would cripple Cleveland’s economy. And there are plenty of city workers who pay property taxes who have had enough with the fiscal mismanagement and may be moving out of the city soon.
Unfortunately, there are not loads of educated young professional people with families breaking down the borders to move into this city. The city’s population has been on a steady decline.
So please, spare me your advice.
The Teacher,
Now you know how it feels.
Blogger2,
Business as usual in cesspool C-town. That's what happens when you let clowns run important projects. Keep voting NO, & tell everyone you meet to vote NO also.
The Teacher,
As if you would know. Dilbert, the expert on managing urban schools. Amazing that you haven't been hired yet to save New Orleans.
Blogger2,
It is amazing that you keep defending a system that has PROVEN to fail decade after decade. But that's what your corrupt union brainwashed you to do. Dance, puppet, dance!
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